Response to James: A 35mm to Digital Camera Cost Analysis
Cats: Travel, Friends, Tech|A bit of explanation: My friend James made an off-hand remark on a really good blog post about gas conservation that he shot 22 rolls of (I assume 35mm) film on his recent trip to Europe. First, I say, well done, James! Not only on the trip to Europe, but on taking that many shots in maybe a two-week period! The first time I went to Germany in the 90s for 8 weeks I took 13 rolls (though they were 36-exposure rolls, if that makes a difference). My dad chided me for not getting more pictures of myself in the foreign locations. The second time (another 8 weeks) I took about 8 rolls I think. Now if I were going to Rome and Ireland and Paris that would have admittedly skyrocketed to much more, but for James we’re still talking approximately a roll and a half a day!
Second, I commented to James that since the remainder of his post was about saving money & the environment by conserving gasoline, wouldn’t switching to a digital camera accomplish that as well? First you’ve got the cost of film, the weight and space of transporting 22 rolls of chemically-treated plastic, then the cost and time lag of developing, again using nasty chemicals to develop and print all your photos. James responded that he’s not going to end up going digital anytime soon without an infusion of donations. And thus, my response to him…which has naturally led into a discussion that I thought would interest more than just James.
James: I do feel your pain. My digital camera was $5 plus tax after using $75 in Target gift cards from our baby shower. We figured it would be justified given the amount of pictures we planned to take of the little one (mission accomplished).
Before we deecided on this one I was shopping the $200-$300 models and trying to figure out where the money would come from, but I’m glad we ’settled’ for the inexpensive one. It’s a nearly-bottom-of-the-line 6.2 megapixel Kodak Easyshare, and it works great & I think it takes great snapshots. Nothing special compared to a DSLR, but with it I take the best-looking pictures I ever have, and that’s enough for me.
At 6.2 megapixels per photo, a 1GB memory card (an extra $20 or so, one-time purchase) holds roughly 600 photos. (25 rolls of 24 exp film, or 16 2/3 rolls of 36 exp film). For an extended time away from home (or a computer), based on my photographic ability I’d equate 600 ‘keepers’ to at least 900-1200 shots on film, because I can instantly preview and delete any that I muck up, or where someone’s eyes or closed, or the exposure or flash is wrong, or I just didn’t like the composition…paying for film & developing for wasted shots was a killer for me; maybe you’re better/luckier and it would only equate to 100 wasted shots out of every 600 keepers…but what’s the film/developing cost of those wasted shots?
For the sake of easy math, let’s assume that in maxing out your memory card with 600 keepers you delete 112 bad shots…that’s 4 rolls of 24 exposures each. Let’s also assume you didn’t have any connections or discounts on either film or developing, and we’ll leave high-volume discounts out of this as much as possible. A quick Google search later, I find that Walgreens has a 4-pack of 200 ISO film for $5.99. That’s $6 down the drain already. What’s the cheapest place to get photos developed? When they were around, K-Mart used to be the cheapest, but at this point for budget developing I’d go to Walgreens or the local equivalent. I can’t find pricing for developing outside of one-hour processing ($3.99/roll with coupon) so let’s be generous and say it’s 5 cents a print with free doubles. That’s still $5.60 for all the photos that were printed and processed unnecessarily, for a total of $11.59 wasted per 600 keepers (keeping in mind that for me it’d be three times as much waste as in the example), and we’re starting to talk about real money. For someone who is either well-traveled or an otherwise prolific photographer, $100 initial hardware investment doesn’t look so bad. And that’s just the waste we’re talking about, not even the regular costs of film & processing when your photos are not digital. This year with a new baby son and a new nephew I’ll easily shoot 2000 keepers (meaning the ones I don’t delete), and even being generous to myself and assuming only 400 wasted shots, that’s 100 rolls this year. That’s $149 for film and $120 for processing that I’m saving! Yeah, it’s worth it for me to shoot digital pics.
Additionally, I don’t print out most of my photos, but post them to the web for sharing with family & friends. This means I share the cost of making any prints with the people that actually want a hard copy, and save the toner, paper, money, etc by not printing a copy for people who just wanted to see the pictures once or twice. That means I also don’t have to scan any photos (a time consuming process), though if I remember correctly some photo processors will include a CD-Rom of your photos, either free or for a nominal fee.
So good digital cameras need to be neither expensive. Now if (speaking to the population in general) you’re looking at a digital SLR, well, I understand…there are only so many items I can justify spending a multiple of my monthly salary on…but the overall cost benefits of the digital format would go a long way toward it paying for itself, I think. If you’re a DSLR photographer, you’re going to be taking a LOT of higher-res photos, and potentially making a little side business out of your photography. Or else it’s a hobby that brings you a lot of joy.
Okay, James, you probably don’t need to read any more because here’s where I really go off into my rant…
A point-and-shoot camera has little value to such a person, then, because it doesn’t provide as much control over exposure, focus, etc. While the cost of a DSLR is high, then, I would argue that the comparative cost is reduced because of personal preference. For example, if you are going to buy a laptop but you’ve already decided you’re getting a Mac, you look at the $1099 price tag for the Macbook compared to other (expensive) items in the Apple line, but pay no mind to the $500 Dell laptops that are on the market because you’ve ruled them out; they have little value to you so you consider them not worth the plastic they’re built with. In the case of a DSLR photogapher, I think that in your valuation of the $2000 Canon DSLR you’re considering, you subconsciously subtract out the few hundred dollars that a medium-priced point-and-shot camera costs. This makes the DSLR an even better deal in your mind. I had a former boss that I watched perform this little mental trick on himself. Now of course this is all moot if you don’t have the money in the first place. But in my experience this sort of contemplation of the desired purchase helps justify the sacrifices we must make in order to save up the money to make said purchase.
Well, I apologize for this discussion bleeding into the theoretical, but good ol’ Dones was in the mood to ramble, I guess. James, I think you should sell some of your biodiesel (if that’s even legal) and save the proceeds towards a digital camera of your choosing. You could also probably get some money by selling your current camera as well.






June 19th, 2008 at 8:52 am
Hey Man,
Have to admit, this post was super long concerning the topic at hand and as a result, I’ve not read it in its entirety. Suffice to say i’ll add a few things.
1 - I love my non-digital Minolta. I enjoy creating a composition and setting shots to create mood and artsy stuff. When we do upgrade to a digital camera, i’m going to get one of the big mofos akin to an actual hand held professional camera, not an $80 over the counter jobber from the local superstore. That’s gonna take some time. Till then, I’m super happy framing and shooting with the film camera I own now. Love it!
2 - I seriously doubt, I’m causing more of an eco-disaster in developing 22 rolls of film, than the bulk of humaity is by driving their cars to work each morning. While developing chemicals are hazardous, they aren’t contributing to greenhouse gas build-up and smog and various other forms of fossil fuel pollution. At least, it isn’t on the scale that cars are.
Word. Good to see you and your new little boy at Cade’s wedding my friend. Cheers!
June 19th, 2008 at 3:51 pm
Right on, like I said, if you’re going the DSLR route you’re in a different league than I am. But I wasn’t equating your personal non-digital camera use to the entire human population’s use of fossil fuel. If you have to choose one thing to change to help the environment, I can appreciate the choice you’ve made. For me, I’m looking forward to cheaper electric vehicles and solar panels. Especially having a house all to myself (as opposed to a duplex) I’ve been looking into all of that, plus the possibility of wind generators (unsure what the city ordinances are on windmills, but it’s a small town so I’m hoping there won’t be much trouble. Of course there’s a big up-front cost to these things, so we’ll have to sort that out, too.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:00 pm
dones, this entire post seemed woefully unnecessary. i’m sorry, but if james wants to take pictures on film rather than digital (something that i held on to for longer than most until finally caving and getting the digital rebel) then that is completely his right. if he wants to be concerned about environmental issues and gas prices, that is also his right.
i can’t escape the feeling that you are calling james (whether intentionally or not) a hypocrite. and you should know as well as any of us, that that is simply not the case.
gas consumption and film processing have NO correlation as far as effect on the earth no matter how hard you try to connect them. 150 years of photo developing haven’t done a fraction of the damage that 10 years of auto-pollution has. financially speaking, a hobby that someone enjoys and chooses to partake in simply cannot be compared to something in which none of us have a choice.
the biodiesel comment was completely uncalled for.
i love you man, but this was a complete waste of time. both mine and yours.
June 19th, 2008 at 9:04 pm
if i have misunderstood you…i apologize.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:15 pm
hey dones,
still laughing about the ministry of silly dances reference i didn’t get the first time.
anyway, i shoot weddings, and events and have sold some prints. i should point out that my favorite camera, after my 100 year old brownie ($2 plus film) is my $200 point and shoot digital that has all the controls (for the most part mind you) as my expensive DSLR i use for weddings and events. i almost never use the DSLR unless I am shooting portraits or a wedding. Mostly cause people won’t pay me to shoot with a point and shoot. But if I wanted to i could get pretty much the same results with the point and shoot digital as i do with the big DSLR.
For me, the only thing the DSLR has over the Digital point and shoot is the multiple lenses and a bit more exposure control. But i have found that the computer on the camera has a better eye for exposure than i do and i shoot on the street with a 50 year old and 100 year old film cameras with out meters and sometimes with chrome with little latitude. and still think the point and shoot guesses better than me.
all that is to say that you shouldn’t think that to take great photos you need a DSLR or any specific kind of camera. good photographers make good photos, the camera is just a tool.
and i love film btw. i only went digital for convenience, i still shoot way more film than digital. i like the process, i like the results, i like that i can use a $12 plastic camera with a $3 roll of outdated 120 film and get better photos than the gadget hound and his expensive DSLR.
james nailed it, it is about the framing and seeing the shot. one thing i have found is that while i might take more photos with digital, i take more bad photos because i am not forced to think about every shot.
i think digital teaches us to be lazy in our composition because each photo is cheaper. when i know that i only have 12 shots in my medium format cameras i don’t fool around and i make every shot count. i get 10 out of 12 excellent photos from my brownie or rollie and would be shocked if i get 10 for every 100 shots i “snap off” on my digital cameras.
anyway, just some food for thought.
June 19th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
(In response to cade)
I’m definitely sorry if I’ve offended anyone. I know you guys love me, and I hope you know there was no intention on my part to hurt anyone’s feelings (or waste anyone’s time, though that is a common product of this blog).
As far as my suggesting James sell some biodiesel to pay for a camera (I think that’s the one you’re referring to, cade): I truly don’t see how that was uncalled for. I’ll be more than happy to disavow the statement if you can explain how it’s offensive. The only thing I can think of that might offend is mentioning the legalities of such a sale…well, the sale of fuel is pretty strictly regulated, what with taxes and EPA regulations and what-not. So it follows that I may have been suggesting a course of action that is illegal (or at least prohibitively wrought with red-tape). My ignorance in that side of things is why I even brought it up. Perhaps you misunderstood me to mean that homemade biodiesel is illegal? I know it’s legal: I’ve read as much of James’ posts on the subject, as well as done some independent research about the feasibility for me to do it myself, and never has there been a question in my mind of the legality of making it yourself. Once again, I was only referring to the possible legal or regulatory issues surrounding the sale of homemade fuel to others.
As far as the discussion in general, the purpose of my bringing it up had more to do with the digital-vs-film situation than anything to do with automobiles. In hindsight, I shouldn’t have made even the insinuation of a comparison.
As I said in my comment about to James, it’s about choices. I suppose I did hint at him being a hypocrite, and I’m sorry for that. James is as far from hypocrisy as anyone I know. The insinuation was more based on the idea I had in my mind that he would go to all this extra work to collect the used vegetable oil, and process it, but then not spend a random 80 bucks on a digital camera that would save a lot of money and waste. This was the way I interpreted things, not having to do with anything James said. I was jumping to the wrong conclusions and ran with it. Again, I’m sorry for that.
To sum up, the main reason for this post was to discuss the cost savings of a digital camera vs film, and I threw in some environmental conservation points as well, to drive home the point that I think it’s a good choice overall. Obviously I missed the mark by insinuating hypocrisy in James where there is none to be found, and by comparing the relatively small amount of environmental benefits of going digital to the larger benefits of going biodiesel.
Are we all still friends?
June 19th, 2008 at 11:57 pm
(In response to Mike)
You make many good points here, Mike: namely that the number one determiner of good photos is the photographer, not the camera. I admit I am not a hobbyist photographer. I enjoy taking photos and I love it when I can get that composition or perspective of something just right…I just haven’t made a hobby out of it. All that to say that if you take the time to develop (pun intended) something you enjoy doing, you improve. The pics you, James, and Eric take are all better photos than mine because you have all taken the time & energy to take better photos with each successive roll (for lack of a better term).
It probably doesn’t help that I favor point-and-shoots. The amount of time that I have spent with SLRs taught me what you said above: that each exposure has to count, and the slightest change can have a big impact on the final product. I think that the digital process can produce similar quality photos due to the ease of post-production (especially with programs like Photoshop). But while the output can be comparable, the processes themselves are like night and day between film & digital, so to each his own there, I suppose. And it goes back to learning to make every exposure count, and it’s tough to learn that when exposures are practically free. I think it’s still possible to teach yourself that if you have a perspective of the scarcity of time instead of supply…that is, you may only have time or opportunity to get that one great shot, so make it count. Once you learn to make every shot count, though, I think that’s the time to open up the digital world and go to town. I may shoot 100 shots and only have 10 keepers now, but part of that is I’m taking a lot more shots so that I don’t miss an opportunity. If I only had 24 shots on a roll, I would have a lot of missed opportunities with baby photos, because I would be trying to wait for just the right expression on the young one’s face, or whatever. So I still net more keepers with digital than with film.
The digital camera I have has a surprising number of options for $80 (a big part of the low price was that it was soon to be replaced by a newer model), only a few of which I have yet explored. Part of this is that I have only had it since April, part is that is was purchased for baby photos and has been used nearly exclusively for baby photos, and part of it is I haven’t taken the extra time to go on a shoot (even around the house). The biggest choice I’ve had to make with baby photos is flash or no flash (no flash=generally better) and macro setting vs normal (macro obviously good for baby closeups). I’ve been more concerned about lighting for the baby because the flash isn’t the best choice (for various reasons) and in interior light the shutter speed is so slow that motion blur is a big problem. So I turn up an extra lamp, or open up a window blind to let more light into the room when I can, and the camera will increase the shutter speed as a result.
For a long time I’ve wanted to pair my limited photography skills with my less limited Photoshop skills to create some artistic images of my own. Maybe I’ll make a point of doing so on one of my days home with the little one. Of course I’d post them here to share.
That, and I need to scan in a bunch of my Germany photos and upload them, as well as get them scrapbooked or at least in an album. I need to do that before they get put away in storage again.
June 20th, 2008 at 7:48 am
of course we are still friends.
you are right about the biodeisel comment. i DID misinterpret that and I am sorry for jumping on it.
bottom line: i was in a weird mood last night and for whatever reason your post caught me wrong. i rarely dump comments like my last one…but when i do…look out!
anyway, to the subject at hand: i have a very simple opinion on it. photography and taking pictures are not the same thing. one is an art form, the other is a way for the masses to communicate. both are good. both have their place in society. some choose one. some choose the other. some like to dabble in both. with the popularity of digital, the lines have become even grayer. issues such as ‘cost’ and ‘format’ come down to personal preference. and again, in these areas, we can choose what we spend our money on.
our choices when it comes to gas are(north shore, boston; as of 6/20/08) “do i want to pay $4.07 or $4.09 a gallon?”
it’s just not the same issue.
June 20th, 2008 at 9:07 am
cade, I think that’s well said. Photography as art vs communication makes a big difference in the choices we make. I look forward to the day when only car aficionados and hobbyists are the ones who choose to pay for gasoline, and the rest of us are whirring down the roads in our cheap mass-produced solar cars. (Okay, that may never happen, but a guy can dream, can’t he?)
…and I totally understand being in a weird mood. No worries.
June 20th, 2008 at 8:03 pm
dones,
as far as baby photos and flash, see if you can’t step the flash exposure down a step for portraits of the baby and you will be stoked with the results. if you can’t adjust it on the camera take some thin tissue and tape it over the flash and that will step it down about a stop. try it and you will see.
June 20th, 2008 at 8:21 pm
hm, i’ll try that. I don’t think I can adjust the flash within the camera, but I’ll try the tissue paper idea. Thanks!